세계 世界 World

청경수려淸勁秀麗 2013. 6. 27. 21:14

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/spotlight/syria/

 

 

Saudi Arabia accuses Syria of 'genocide'
Saudi foreign minister says Bashar al-Assad government waging "genocide" against rebels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/iran-shows-no-hesitation-about-intervening-in-syria/2012/09/20/9f61d348-01c1-11e2-b257-e1c2b3548a4a_story.html

The Post’s View

Iran shows no hesitation about intervening in Syria

IT’S BEEN MORE than a year since the Obama administration began describing the downfall of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad as a matter of time. He’s defied White House predictions in part because of his ruthlessness — more than 20,000 Syrians, most of them civilians, have died during the uprising — and in part because of political and military weakness of his opposition.

But the Assad regime also has been bolstered by the imbalance of foreign intervention. While the United States and other Western powers hang back, and Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar offer weak and poorly coordinated aid, Iran has mounted a concerted and escalating campaign to prop up the government. Iran has sent men as well as arms, cash and technical support.

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Editorials represent the views of The Washington Post as an institution, as determined through debate among members of the editorial board. News reporters and editors never contribute to editorial board discussions, and editorial board members don’t have any role in news coverage.

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White House aides are frequently described as worrying that direct U.S. aid to the rebels would intensify the war — which is now bloodier than Iraq at the height of its sectarian fighting — or prompt other countries to jump in. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s regime has no such scruples. The commander in chief of the Revolutionary Guard, Mohamad Ali Jafari, acknowledged at a news conference last weekend that members of the elite Quds force have been training a 50,000-member civilian militia modeled on Iran’s own Basij force. Those fighters, known to Syrians as shabiha, have been guilty of some of the war’s worst atrocities, including the mass murder of civilians in several villages.

The Wall Street Journal reported that the Revolutionary Guard general leading the training effort, Hossein Hamedani, commanded the assault on Iranians who revolted against the regime in 2009. Hundreds of rank-and-file members of the Guard and Basij are in Syria to bolster government forces, the Journal said. A busload of 48 was captured by the Free Syrian Army last month.

Even as the Obama administration was rejecting appeals from Turkey, France and other allies for more robust action against the Assad regime, Tehran was escalating. In July it resumed direct cargo flights to Damascus across Iraqi airspace. U.S. officials, who believe that the planes carry military equipment, appealed to the Iraqi government to stop them or at least inspect them. But the flights have continued. U.S. officials told the New York Times that Iran has even provided the regime with a cargo plane for transporting fighters and supplies around the country. Meanwhile, the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, an Iranian client, has been sending its own trainers into Syria.

Some administration officials dismiss the Iranian effort as futile support for a lost cause. But Iranian backing for the regime, matched against Western passivity, could keep Mr. Assad in power indefinitely. Even if the government in Damascus collapses, Iranian commanders and the militias they’ve trained will likely stay on to compete in what could be a chaotic struggle for power that could spread from Syria to Lebanon and Iraq. Al-Qaeda and other Sunni extremist groups will be part of that fight; so will the rebel groups backed by the fundamentalist Saudis and Qataris. If it continues its present policy, the United States will go on watching from the sidelines as the future of the Levant is decided.

 

 

 

 

 

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Iran has violated the UN Arms Embargo. Don't be surprised if this turns out to be the straw that broke the camel's back. China is busy. Russia is on our side. A combined US/Russian/Turkish military move could be in and out in two weeks- leaving the Arab forces as a UN peacekeeping group.
I certainly have no sympathy for Assad but I still can't figure out why the WaPo and the MSM in general have conducted a jihad against him while knowing that those who are in rebellion against him are probably much more dangerous to peace in the area than Assad. It is well known that Al Queda is part of the rebellion. The overthrow of Assad will result in Syrian Christians being slaughtered or forced into exile as they were in Iraq.

Obviously, the WaPo is just carrying out its assignment to support Israel's plan to break up its neighbors into warring tribes and sects which will make it easy for Israel to maintain its hegemony in the region.

We have our friends the British and French to thank for the make up of these bastardized coglomerentes of religious sects and tribes.
What a wonderful world it would be if regional conflicts could be handled regionally.
Problem in North Korea, let China take care of it. Problem in Syria, let the neighboring Arab nations find a solution AND use their money and soldiers to enforce it. U.S. intervention may be a short term solution but in the long run it usually just causes more strife.
spamsux1
9/23/2012 2:43 AM UTC+0900
So the US should just let Iran and Russia have free rein?
Obama refused to leave any residual forces in Iraq that would have given the country the backbone and capability to block these Iranian flights.

Obama does nothing more than wag his finger at the slaughter that is supported not only by Iran but also by Russia.
Remember the "open hand" to Iran and the "reset button" with Russia?
kumbaya? How's that working out?

These people can smell Obama's weakness and tens of thousands are dying as a result.
Europe looks to America for leadership and sees none. Not even

This sad, ignorant excuse of a president is watching the middle east and Muslim world boil over and he is out partying with Beyonce and Jay-Z.

Obama had "his fair shot" and he missed the mark by a mile.
America and the world needs a real leader now, before a tipping point is reached.
The shame and dishonor brought to our nation by Republicans belongs to them alone. Any failure of the Iraqi nation in the future belongs to Republican ignorance that created the situation in the first place. I have said all along that Bush and the Republicans in Congress have given Iran a very expensive "gift"...... paid for with American blood and treasure!! Ultimately, a gift not worthy of the sacrifice of a single drop of American blood, nor a penny of American money.

Now we can all be witness to Iran as it rebuilds the old Persian Empire!
newageblues
9/23/2012 2:33 AM UTC+0900
Your last sentence ignores the desire for democracy among people everywhere these days, including Iran and Syria. For all its flaws, we have a democracy, the people of Syria and Iran don't, but they want one, and will get what they want and deserve one day.
motiv8ed
9/23/2012 3:45 AM UTC+0900
Always keep in mind that all the while Ameicans were being killed, and Iraqis were being slaughtered at the cost of hundreds of billions of American dollars........ Al Maliki was negotiating in Tehran with Iranian leaders. Moqtadr Al Sadr, the eventual future leader of Iraq, was being schooled in Iran!

Look up a map of the old Persian Empire....... see what areas are part and parcel to it!
Nothing will happen until after election day.
spamsux1
9/23/2012 2:40 AM UTC+0900
Sad but true, clc...
As the U.S and the world creep closer to an all out war it is frightening to watch supposedly the strongest country in the world be pushed around by countries that did not exist 100 years ago, The country that the world always looked up to with a constitution that allowed freedom of speech to be cowed by film produced in the land of the free and to put the producer in handcuffs. The country that claims religious freedom but allows only selected religions to be put down and humiliated like the Roman Catholics.The country that one had the ability to rise from poverty to riches without having to apologize for his accomplishments. As one who does not live in the U..S it is heart breaking to see the country at the end of the rainbow being replaced by apologizing for its people being free to express their feelings
So, why shouldn't the US sit on the sidelines?

Syria is in the Middle East, not the Gulf of Mexico,

Or does the WaPo's EB think the US is entitled to meddle everywhere in the world?

And, don't forget, everytime the US has interfered in the Middle East the result has been a total catastrophe for all concerned.
Aww, and the US won't happen upon Iran in Syria nor will it confront it over some red line.
I guess we take it as a pink flag -like in a "definitely maybe", or like "Obama and a backbone"
The Wall Street Journal report is false. To believe everything that WSJ writes is the height of irresponsible journalism. The Iranian Defense Minister said a couple of days ago that Iran has no forces in Syria other than normal embassy attaches. Even if they did have advisors or consultants, so what? Who do people think trains and arms the mercenary rebels? Why don't the Western powers, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar stop interfering in Syria?
zvi1
9/22/2012 7:50 AM UTC+0900
And you believe Iranian lies.

" U.S. officials, who believe that the planes carry military equipment, appealed to the Iraqi government to stop them or at least inspect them. But the flights have continued. "

No wonder that a weak USA president is ignored.
quinterius
9/23/2012 3:22 AM UTC+0900
There are 75 million people in Iran. Just because some Iranian "official" said something it does not mean that it is true. Iran is not a dictatorship where everything comes from one person. As I said, the Defense Minister denied the reports that Iran has troops in Syria. He is the highest military official in the country. Of course, they may have some clandestine operations. But, what is new about that? Doesn't CIA have operations all over the world?
Of course. This attack to regime change Syria is being done mostly to prepare the way for an attack on Iran. For Iran, this is self defense.
newageblues
9/23/2012 2:46 AM UTC+0900
It's the Syrian people who are leading the effort to force regime change on a mass murdering, torturing civilian attacking war criminal regime. If the U.S., some in
Europe and some in the ME want Assad to fall to pave the way for an attack on Iran, they're sure being very limited in the steps they're taking to make that happen.
Iran is flying across Iraqi airspace. The U.S. wants Iraq to "stop them or at least inspect them".
Should they use their massive air force or anti-aircraft system? Maybe just a loudspeaker saying "Pull over to the side of the road".
SecondhandEntourage
It sound to me like Iran is trying to do what the posties want: put an end to war in Syria. The fact that under this scenario, the people the posties like won't win is surely irrelevant to the people who will survive, rather than dying in a protracted stalemate. And Iran has far more of a right to be there than we do. And we're there. You know we're there. Like the Army captain and Georgetown law student who just happens to be a postie free lance in Syria? The one who apparently got nailed as an unlawful combatant?
Henna
9/21/2012 8:49 PM UTC+0900
Sorry that doesn't work
Here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/iran-shows-...

So sad we have to give links to WaPo's OWN material.
Irrespective of Iran's involvement Syria will never go back to what it was before the uprising. The Syrians killed by the regime will be remembered by their families and others and so how do you reduce that tension. similarly those killed by the opposing forces will also be remembered. Assad if he holds on will spend the rest of his time looking over his shoulder. Similarly Iran may well rue the day it backed Assad irrespective of who wins. They will have intensified opposition to the Iranian regime by the broader Arab community and within Iran as its scarce cash is directed to other than its own people. If it blows up in Iran's face then that regime is at risk as well because it isn;t as secure as it would like. Any suppression of its own peoples may well trigger a long slow slide into its own internal strife.
SecondhandEntourage
9/21/2012 9:55 PM UTC+0900
Really? What about the civilians killed by the al-Qaida militants?
News of the day:

The link you clicked for the Editorial: "Iran joins the battle in Syria" on the first page directs you here.

If you want to read the WaPo article you clicked her is the link:
WaPo Editorial:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/iran-shows-...

Haha... hahaaaaa.... hihi hiiii.... ohhh my sides......
Folks... you won't believe this !!

Turkish papers say that P.M. Erdogan gave an interview to WaPo.... About Syria.... It seems he said he doesn't intend to do anything military in Syria - no no-fly zones, no nothing !! He essentially says he won't make an honest man of Dobama... ha hahaaa... hi-hi hiiii.......

They even published the full interview. It's quite long... He even says the US hasn't lifted a finger in Syria so far...

WaPo, where is it ?? Ha-ha hahaaaaa.... Ohhh my sides....
Let the "international Community" speak anything against Iran like "Iran DEFIES the international Community" or Iran is DEFYING the UN Security council or Iran is defying the "international Community" because it helps Syria. Let some one speak this at the UN General Assembly meet at NY next week. The entire 120 nation members of NAM will walk out of the meeting, collapsing the entire organization. And if the United Nations is scrapped, the next biggest world body is - you've guessed it right - the 120 nation NAM. And Ahmedinejad is its present Chairman. The "International Community" will have to keep waiting outside his office in Tehran to have a word with him. Enjoy life.
fuscator
9/22/2012 7:29 AM UTC+0900
eh, you wasted our time with drivel

I have been to Aleppo and never met a kinder people .. this is pure and shameful cowardice on the part of President Obama ... President Obama continues to obey the commands of the Kremlin dictators as he abandons the Syrian people for 512 days of mass murder .. if these were his daughters being murdered in Aleppo would he not risk re election and send help anyway ? But he fails to aid the fathers and daughters in Syria .. just plain cowardice and he knows better .. just like President Clinton turned his back on the Rwandan and Bosnian mass murders .. and Roosevelt said nothing of the mass murder of Jews by Nazis in Ukraine in 1941 .. it is cowardly and disgraceful .. President Obama said it in masterful words himself last year ..

The manifest cowardice of President Obama in failing the Syrian people is repugnant to his own stated principles, which he so eloquently espoused March 28, 2011, "when people were being brutalized in Bosnia in the 1990s, it took the international community more than a year to intervene with air power to protect civilians." www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/03/28/president-obama-s-speech-libya

“To brush aside America’s responsibility as a leader and — more profoundly — our responsibilities to our fellow human beings under such circumstances would have been a betrayal of who we are,” (Except in an election year?)

“Some nations may be able to turn a blind eye to atrocities in other countries. The United States of America is different,” (Except in an election year)

“And as president, I refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action.”

President Clinton watched mass murder in Bosnia for a year .. waiting for the Kremlin to give him the OK to stop it .. finally he manned up to using force to stop the mass murder ..

Wasn't it someone named Obama who said "Never Again" ?
SecondhandEntourage
9/21/2012 9:56 PM UTC+0900
So let me get this straight. You've named your mom's basement Aleppo?
Syria would be a fine place for a proxy war between us and Iran.
MarkThomason
9/22/2012 12:24 AM UTC+0900
Is. Not would be.
The lack of a coherent foreign policy over the last 4 years, one which identifies US National interests and comes up with a strategy to achieve same, is probably George W. Bush's fault.
SecondhandEntourage
9/21/2012 12:05 PM UTC+0900
Dam it not him again! God Obama got screwed.
It is jaw-dropping that the Post editorial board cannot deliver a succinct piece of critical thinking regarding the foreign policy failures of the Obama administration. The Entertainer-in-Chief is failing in the foremost job of a U.S. President: to protect and defend the country against enemies foreign and domestic.

The professionalism that WAS the body of editorial opinion from the Post has evaporated like morning fog.
Pegasus
9/21/2012 11:33 AM UTC+0900
Stop living in the antediluvian world when America used to think the universe revolves round it. Those days are over. This is the modern age where all old colonialists will get kicked out of the ME and other regions of the world. You cant be a parasite all the time. Iran is a world player now, howmuchever the west pulls its hair and screams from rooftops. The result is only loss of voice and loss of hair. Susan Rice has already given up screaming hysterically at the Russians and Chinese. In fact Lavrov chuckles at even hearing the name of Rice. Does the universe revolve round America?
SecondhandEntourage
Dude at the post: Like, we don't trust you on Syria. Every week you run an editorial, and like, we know you're shading the facts. Like this gas station thingy. You think we're stupid? You think we don't know that rebels need fuel? You think we don't know that this wasn't your local Exxon? And like, isn't Iran way closer to there than us? So they have WAY more of a right to be there? And aren't we doing the same thing they are? The post's argument seems to be what they are doing is wrong because they are doing it better than us, plus the post totally hates Syria.
We don't know the whole truth about what is going on there. The US and Israel are doing something but hard to tell right now. Stability in the Middle East has been made much worse by the US and Israel. If indeed Iran is aiding Syria this will work against Iran's interests because of Assad's brutality. The US should adopt a policy of self determination in the region. Stop borrowing and spending on other nations issues.
fuscator
9/22/2012 7:35 AM UTC+0900
How's Israel involved? Other than allowing arms to go from Iran to Hizballa, Assad was (and is) a nice warm puppy when it comes to his border with Israel, and Jerusalem would have liked him and his policy to be immortal.
Israel is not touching Syria with a 10 foot pole, unless is sees chem weapons being bandied about, in which case, take shelter.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/condoleezza-rice-syria-is-central-to-holding-together-the-middle-east/2012/11/23/200e583e-2ebf-11e2-89d4-040c9330702a_story.html

Opinions

Syria is central to holding together the Mideast

Condoleezza Rice was secretary of state from 2005 to 2009.

The civil war in Syria may well be the last act in the story of the disintegration of the Middle East as we know it. The opportunity to hold the region together and to rebuild it on a firmer foundation of tolerance, freedom and, eventually, democratic stability is slipping from our grasp.

Egypt and Iran have long, continuous histories and strong national identities. Turkey does as well, except for the matter of the Kurds, who are still largely unassimilated, mistrusted by Ankara and tempted by the hope of independent nationhood.

Gallery

Every other important state is a modern construct, created by the British and the French, who drew borders like lines on the back of an envelope, often without regard for ethnic and sectarian differences. The results: A Bahrain that is 70 percent Shiite, governed by a Sunni monarch. Saudi Arabia was created with a 10 percent Shiite population in its richest provinces to the east. Iraq is 65 percent Shiite, 20 percent Sunni Arab, and a mix of Kurds and others, all ruled until 2003 by an iron-fisted Sunni dictator. Jordan’s population is almost 70 percentPalestinian. Lebanon is roughly divided among Sunnis, Shiites and Christians. And then there is Syria: a conglomerate of Sunnis, Shiites, Kurds and others, ruled by the Alawite minority.

The fragile state structure of the Middle East has been held together for decades by monarchs and dictators. But as the desire for freedom has spread from Tunis to Cairo to Damascus, authoritarians have lost their grip. The danger now is that the artificial states could fly apart.

In Iraq, after overthrowing Saddam Hussein, the United States hoped that a fledging multi-ethnic, multi-confessional democracy could do what authoritarians could not: give all of these groups a stake in a common future. To an extent it has, with elections repeatedly producing inclusive governments. But the institutions are young and fragile, and they are groaning under the weight of the region’s broader sectarian explosion. The conflict in Syria is pushing Iraq and others to the breaking point. At the same time, U.S. disengagement has tempted Iraqi politicians to move toward sectarian allies for survival. If Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki cannot count on the Americans, he will take no risks with Tehran.

The great mistake of the past year has been to define the conflict with Bashar al-Assad’s regime as a humanitarian one. The regime in Damascus has been brutal, and many innocent people have been slaughtered. But this was no replay of Libya. Much more is at stake.

As Syria crumbles, Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds are being drawn into a regional web of sectarian allegiances. Karl Marx once called on workers of the world to unite across national boundaries. He told them that they had more in common with each other than with the ruling classes that oppressed them in the name of nationalism. Marx exhorted workers to throw off the “false consciousness” of national identity.

Today’s Karl Marx is Iran. It envisions the spread of its influence among Shiites, uniting them under the theocratic flag of Tehran — destroying the integrity of Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Lebanon. Iran uses terrorist groups, Hezbollah and the Shiite militias in southern Iraq to do its bidding. Syria is the linchpin, the bridge into the Arab Middle East. Tehran no longer hides the fact that its security forces are working in Syria to prop up Assad. In this context, Tehran’s sprint toward a nuclear weapon is a problem not just for Israel but the region as a whole.

In response, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other neighboring powers arm and support Sunni factions. The Turks are being drawn into the conflict, desperately fearful that the Kurds will break away in Syria and push their brethren in Turkey to do the same. Missile and mortar strikes are increasingly common across the borders of Israel and Turkey. Ankara’s cries to NATO for help last month should have gotten our attention.

But where is the United States? America has spent months trying to get the Russians and the Chinese to agree to toothless U.N. resolutions to “end the bloodshed,” as though Moscow will abandon Assad and Beijing really cares about chaos in the Middle East. Vladimir Putin is not a sentimental man. But if he believes that Assad can survive, he will do nothing to undermine him.

In recent days, France, Britain and Turkey have stepped into the diplomatic vacuum to recognize a newly formed opposition that is broadly representative of all Syrians. The United States should follow their lead and then vet and arm the unified group with defensive weapons on the condition that it pursues an inclusive post-Assad framework. The United States and its allies should also consider establishing a no-fly zone to protect the innocent. America’s weight and influence are needed. Leaving this to regional powers, whose interests are not identical to ours, will only exacerbate the deepening sectarianism.

Certainly there are risks. After more than a year of brutal conflict, the most extreme elements of the opposition — including al-Qaeda — have been empowered. Civil wars tend to strengthen the worst forces. The overthrow of Assad could indeed bring these dangerous groups to power.

But the breakdown of the Middle East state system is a graver risk. Iran will win, our allies will lose, and for decades the region’s misery and violence will make today’s chaos look tame.

War is not receding in the Middle East. It is building to a crescendo. Our elections are over. Now, America must act.

Read more from Opinions:

Dima Wannous: In the Syrian revolution, a victory over fear

The Post’s View: Iran shows no hesitation about intervening in Syria

Michael Gerson: American foreign policy, adrift on the Middle East

Soner Cagaptay: Syria becomes a wedge between U.S. and Turkey

 

 

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here is the story of Syria in power points shows
https://www.facebook.com/groups/345746268852966/fi...
Mrs. Rice! you prove that the racism is not about black and white, it is a market too, and you were one of the best tools of the Wild Global Market!
I am from Syria, which existed since 12000 years, Syria which you know only through your cooperation and banks is for 12000 years a civilized nation had many religions and ethnics and doesn't need your advice and analysis that murdered half million human in Iraq!
Assad is a bloody dictator and Syrian people will get ride of him, and establish Syria independent and democratic.
You just keep playing with your friends allies in Al Qaeda and royal families over the black oil.
Indeed you, Buss, Putin, Assad, Saddam, bin laden, Ahmadinejad, Hamad, and Erdogan are the same devil who works for money and power and is destroying our world.
How many wars do you want us to fight Ms Rice? How many years have you served in our military? How many of your children are serving in our military? If the answers to any of these questions are zero than you do not have the moral right to say we need to jump into yet another war. You and Mr. Bush should have thought about the consequences of taking down Saddam and handing the Middle East over to Iran on a silver platter. What makes you think you have the solutions now?
for democracy to take root, it is necessary for people to forge a social contract thus, it might not be a bad idea to break up these constructs. If there is a way for democracy to take root this is the only way.
To stop Syria’s civil war the administration must focus on making the groups that support Bashar Al-Assad feel safe to stop supporting the status quo and accept change. Therefore, self-determination must be a pillar of any strategy dealing with the revolutions in the ME in general and in Syria in particular given Syria’s diversity if, long term stability is what we seek; i.e. the Kurds must be recognized and given an autonomous region and, the Alewites must also have an autonomous region. Other minorities, judging by where they stand today, will chose to live with the Alewites.
Both alewites and kurds could be allies of the US and, they could even be allies of Israel to balance against their newly found enemies. This will also keep Syrians occupied and, will prevent them from stirring problems.
The US does not need to take sides in the sectarian war. It can get closer with parties from both sides and this will give the US tremendous leverage.
The only hope for a soft landing and lasting peace is: A Syrian Union and the right of Self-determination granted to Syria’s components. This must be the US administration’s strategy. Otherwise fundamentalist regimes will form the new geopolitical reality in the ME and it would be very difficult to check, contain, and balance against emerging hostile regimes in the ME.
As for Syria and the region:
There is not a clear end game for what is going on in Syria. There will be more violence and more bloodshed after the fall of Al-Assad. Unfortunately and sadly, thousands of Syrians will die at a higher pace once Assad is toppled. Of course, this does not mean that Assad must stay but, it means that we must move beyond the futile argument: To arm or not to arm. Arming the rebels will only usher Syria in another era of conflict. Massacres will continue. There is a reason why non-Sunni Muslims and Kurds are mistrustful of the opposition and have not joined them.
Some argue that toppling Assad will harm Iran. True, Iran will suffer a strategic setback. However, the logic behind the need to defeat Iran is defeated by creating a far more capable and hostile force in the heart of the ME. The rise of Sunni fundamentalists cannot be the answer to containing Iran. However, the opposite can be true. The west, by supporting the rise of Sunni fundamentalists, will create a far larger anti-western force with greater resources, geographic scope, and numbers.
Shiites are a minority in the Muslim world—approximately one sixth of Muslims controlling 3-4 states out of 56 Muslim states—and Sunnis are the majority. If Sunnis win, then, countries governed by fundamentalist Sunni regimes (Egypt, Ghaza, Syria, possibly in the future Jordan also) with very close ties to Turkey will be the new geopolitical reality in the Middle East. That jeopardizes vital US interests. Therefore, maintaining the Sunni-Shiite balance is vital. only then, can America maintain the ability to shape events in the ME.
Inside Syria, Alewites, Christians, and Druz are supporting Assad because their existence will be threatened under his opponents. Syria’s Alewites, Christians, and Druz are supporting Assad because their existence will be threatened under his opponents. They know this as they have been living in these areas for centuries and were subjected to various kinds of discrim
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An utter disappointment: The article starts by highlighting the fact that states in the ME are imperial constructs that have overlooked the realities on the ground. This means the destiny of these people is intertwined against their wish. However, this article ends up advocating the preservation of these states and, the article hints that this is the way to eventually build stable democracy. Well, this is absurd to say the least.
The article contains erroneous conclusions and is full of wishful thinking. Iran loses a lot as a result of the sunni-shia divide. Shias are a small minority in the mulsim world—about one tenth—if Iran comes off as shia it loses its soft power with the Sunni majoirty. This of course has been the result of the syrian conflict where Iran lost its appeal. Iran is a net loser not a winner at all. Further, Turks were drawn into the Syrian conflict before the kurdish movement was christalized. The turks hoped that syria would become their protectorate and a sunni gate to the sunni arab world. Turkey, Iran, and Egypt have serious problems. Alevis, Kurds, Jews, and Christians in Turkey are not integrated. Blucsh, Kurds, Arabs, and some azeris are not integrated in Iran. Copts are increasingly alienated in Egypt.
dlzar1977@gmail.com
Middle east needs America as a powerful force and a guard in the area but unfortunately in Obama presidency America become weak and will become even weaker. He was showing a weak america in his past presidency. We will see a war in Iraq between Arabs and Kurd, if it will not be now, surely we will see it in the next two years, when the central Iraqi government buys the Russian and Czech Air-jet. Now tenth of thousands of troops for both the Kurdish and the Arab government are standing against each other near the Kurdish city of Kirkuk, they just need a torch. I agree with Rice in the Kurdish situation in Turkey, Turks, Arabs and Persian deceive Kurd since centuries . Now it is a great time for Kurdish people to get independence. Kurd always get involved in their fighting, we need peace, no more war. if Kurd live with these nations, the conflicts will remain in this area. For hundreds of years Kurd got involved in different wars that we didn't make it. Now Arabs are fighting in Syria, and they asked Kurds to get involved, even Al-Asad is a dictator but the new faces will be worse especially with Kurd, they don't believe in Democracy. In Iraq it is the same, every Arab leader said that Kurd were problem in Iraq and we have to fight them and Kurds have to get back to the mountains. Where is America in this? the weak foreign policy of America makes the area more unstable. I don't know if the American politics were idiots, but it is obvious that Kurds helped the coalition forces in liberating Iraq. No American soldiers were killed in Kurdistan, they saw our peaceful character. why they leave us in this swamp drown alone? It is disgusting, world without any rules!!!
practicalconservative
When will we (and our State Department) ever learn? Some countries lack the level of civility, tolerance, and national unity/identification required to operate as a democracy. These countries need an authoritarian or dictatorial government to maintain order. Ideally it would be a benevolent dictator who would prepare the country for eventual democracy and provide an improving standard of living for all.
RayJosephCormier
11/27/2012 4:22 AM UTC+0900
That's what was happening in Libya and the West effected regime change.
RayJosephCormier
11/27/2012 4:26 AM UTC+0900
Gadaffi -The Benevolent Dictator in Libya

Everything about Gadaffi's Libya in this video can be Independently verified. Ask yourself why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aJURNC0e6Ek

If one takes the time to actually read the article, it is realized that she can say it so much better than most of us out here watching 'this' all unfold. But we get it...we've been getting it for a long time now....we just chose to remain silent because we were playing along with the game plan. Today, not so much. What we have is an anomalous situation. A situation that needs to be broken down in a way that only peep's can.

I could only hope that former Sec. Condi would strongly consider coming back from retirement. America needs her, or somebody like her, now more than ever. We need a capable diplomat with proven skills and a vision about what to do next, given this 'crisis' that has been thrust upon us. America is not about (R's), (D's), (I's), white, black, Puerto Rican....everybody's freakin.....We need somebody who pledges allegiance to the flag of the 'United States of America' and not to any individual person in-so-that we can move forward.
Unless there is a complete disregard to International Law that is needed to make sure Nations follow the Rule of Law, UN authorization would be needed to legitimize the imposition of a no fly zone.

After the US and the West tricked Russia and China into not casting their VETO for the last UN no fly zone in Libya, which the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization then used to wage a war on Libya imposing their Regime Change that has now come back to bite them with the Benghazi attack, Russia and China will VETO any UN resolution for a no fly zone in Syria. Then what?

Will the West disregard the last vestiges of International Law and just do it? Then there will be Hell to pay for all peoples of all Nations. This is not only from the Quran, but also from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures.
RayJosephCormier
11/27/2012 2:22 AM UTC+0900
A dangerous and volatile Witch’s brew is shaping up in Syria as many competing world powers rush in to affect the outcome not necessarily in Syria’s National interest, but with an agenda in the National interests of those foreign meddling powers. The CIA, MI5, certainly Mossad, the French, Turkey, Russia, Iran, China, Al Qeada, the Arab League and others all have a hand in stirring the pot bringing it to a boil...............................................................

Syria is mentioned in the Bible 147 times, the 1st time in Genesis 25 about 3860 years ago. Damascus is the world’s oldest, continuously lived in city.

Before his sudden, unexpected conversion 2000 years ago, Saul was on his way to Damascus on a targeted assassination mission sent by the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem to capture or kill members of the new Jewish Sect calling themselves Christians.

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest,
And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Acts 9...............................................................................................................

SYRIA: A WITCH’S BREW – on THE ROAD TO TEHRAN
February 27, 2012
http://ray032.com/2012/02/27/syria-a-witchs-brew-o...
Syria is too complicated, can't be done, just forget about it. Asia don't need America, never did. Arab Royals should be able to defend themselves by now, and frankly who cares if they end up in London. Just step back, think, stop empowering the wrong guys and most important of all: end the war on drugs.
RayJosephCormier
11/27/2012 2:06 AM UTC+0900
There have been more people killed so much closer to Home because of the war on drugs in Mexico, CanaDa and the US than have been killed in Syria. Where is the outrage of US Power when this is happening here, never mind so far away from the Homeland?
Guess she misses her old job, like so many of the rest of us.

Hey, who created this mess anyways?
Guess he misses her old job, like so many of the rest of us.

Hey, who created this mess anyways?
Rt66
11/26/2012 5:07 PM UTC+0900
please delete
While Ms Rice makes somewhat cogent arguments, the basic issue is that we are facing a resurgent Sunni Islamic wave that is running up against Shiite opposition. Russia and China are worried - and they should be, they are much closer than we are. The Iranians are leveraging the mess.

The Middle East is in a state of civil war, being fought between Shia and Sunni states. As Mr. Morsi edicts wrt the judiciary, and Mr. Erdogan's more insidious drift towards an Islamist as opposed to a secularist society has shown, we are facing a gradual but rapidly speeding up shift towards a radicalized Sunni Arab world, which believes that the US has failed in Iraq and Afghanistan and is quitting the Middle East. Pakistan, while not Arab, should be a lesson towards the direction that radical Islam is going. In this mess Israel will be a sacrificial lamb, with President Obama not likely to show more than lip service. The last Gaza war is proof of that - Israel today is much weaker than before the war, and has been forced to accept Egyptian intervention. We are not seeing strong leadership on this - it is amazing that President Obama has not unequivocally denounced President Morsi's edict. That is a significant ceding of the moral ground.

Given all of that, what will a collapse in Syria mean? More refugees (we should expect a flood of Christian and Alawite refugees into Israel and the West). More violence. A loss of lines of communication between Iran and the Hezbollah. And a weakening of the Shia position. Hamas will shift its loyalty to Egypt.

There are short-term positives for the US (and potentially Israel), including less risks from Lebanon. In the long term, we should expect a cornered Israel and a potential strengthening of Al Qaeda and other terror groups - the radical spring sweeping the Middle East seems to be headed in that direction.

So would American intervention in Syria make sense? Not sure how. Where is the money? Where are the resources? Let the Arabs, Iranians,
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I really cannot believe the Washington Post published this. Does Rice know anything about Marx? He may have been transnational in his call for a worker's revolution, but certainly not a Shiite fundamentalist. This op-ed is a real insult to those of us who are not sheeple and actually read books! We have had enough of these mindless Neocon mind tricks.
How is this woman considered an expert on foreign policy? She's lucky she's not in jail.
So why was Kindasleeza Rice never indicted for perjury?
Isaiah is a book in the Jewish Bible and the Christian Bible.

Isaiah promised thousands of years ago:

Isaiah 17

A Prophecy Against Damascus
1 A prophecy against Damascus:
“See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.
2 The cities of Aroer will be deserted
and left to flocks, which will lie down,
with no one to make them afraid.

3 The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim,
and royal power from Damascus;

...........
9 In that day their strong cities, which they left
because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned
to thickets and undergrowth.

And all will be desolation.
...........

14 In the evening, sudden terror!
Before the morning, they are gone!
This is the portion of those who loot us,
the lot of those who plunder us.
Interesting that Ms. Rice is so concerned about Iran after helping her boss hand Iraq to Iran on a platter.
JonR2
11/26/2012 9:36 AM UTC+0900
Her boss set up Iraq to be a U.S. ally. His successor handed it to Iran on a silver platter through sheer incompetence. Obama must think WW II and the Korean War are still going on, given how he boasts about his withdrawal from Iraq as the definition of ending the war. But, just as leaving forces in Europe and on the Korean peninsula solidified the cessation of hostilities and, in the case of Europe, solidified American influence in the region, so would an American presence have done in Iraq. However, Obama's ignorance undermined any SoFA and dissipated American influence. For political purposes, he made a show of withdrawal without any thought given to the strategic implications. Bush won the war, and Obama promptly lost the peace, paving the way for Iran's influence to expand.
globalvillage
11/26/2012 3:38 PM UTC+0900
Jon.....One has to wonder if you were an invited observer to Bush's "end of major combat operations" in Iraq statement on the USS Abraham Lincoln in May, 2003. Bush and Cheney used grotesque lies to justify invading Iraq, where we were (properly) treated not as liberators, but as foreign invaders; killed tens of thousands of Iraqis; lost 4,400 of our own service members; and aggravated sectarian hatred by installing a divisive government. Most Iraqis couldn't wait to see us leave.

Any invading power that would have to leave a significant military presence in order to protect the "peace" and "democracy" it claims to have implanted has failed in those challenges. And we have only accelerated the drift of Iraq toward Iran by creating sectarian links between the two governments.

Any suggestion that "Bush won the war" is, frankly, lunacy.

Condi Rice also either misreads history, or is illogical in making deductions from it. If the British and French are largely to blame for the instability of the Middle East by their artificial boundary-drawing, then why should we not encourage the dissolution of untenable states? If the map is part of the problem, we logically should be willing to see the map redrawn. It's not at all clear that we should pursue this, but that view is a logical inference from what Rice writes.

Many years ago, when Condi Rice was "just" a political scientist, I attended conferences where she was a participant. I confess that I missed her neo-con slant at the time. I just thought she was a bit superficial and/or naive about the motivations of some governments. As it turns out, G. W. Bush seems to have turned her naievete into advocacy of neocon positions. Unfortunately, being out of office has not cured her neocon virus.
globalvillage
11/26/2012 3:40 PM UTC+0900
* naiveté *
Take advice from Condi Rice on what the U.S. should do in the Middle East ? I think I'll pass.
Ms Rice should be before a war crime tribunal.
While former State Secretary Condoleezza Rice’s use of “crescendo” reminds readers of her musical skill, it also serves to remind that US foreign policy has been in shambles since Warren Christopher retired. The same sweeping generalities Ms. Rice observes about Sunnis, Kurds, Shiites, Syria and European empire “back of an envelope” border drawing in the Near and Mid-East (she left out pre-Mussolini Italy’s influence on Libya and the eastern Mediterranean islands) could be made about 85% of Sub-Sahara Africa, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

C. Rice also omits to mention that from 1948 through 1990, the USA was tied up with cold war concerns and that those concerns are now being revived by Communist China’s actions in Southeast Asia showing its perception of Obama as a weakling and pushover, unable to protect allies in that region because he can't even get a handle on the Middle East.
How interesting and thoughful that no one other than Condi Rice is giving a lecture about the dangers in the current middle eastern conflicts and the United States' decreasing influence in the middle east.The real question we ought to ask is anyone other than Condi credible to give such opinion?Has she simply forgotten how the bush administration and its neo-con allies dragged the US into a senseless war that has cost trillions and loss of lives all in the name of spreading freedom and democracy in the arad world?How did that one turn out?No one can disagree that this increased the likelyhood of the arab spring that we are witnessing today.A once stable region with proped up dictators is now a hotbed of arab discontent and violence.Now Miss Rice wants the current administration to follow their failed policies of the past by again arming the syrian rebels who aren't thoroughly vetted and are by all indications been infiltrated by islamists and al-qaeda affilited groups.Not so long ago,the US and its allies help overthrow Qadhaffi in libya by arming the rebels.Those same weapons ended up in the wrong hands and the US payed a high price with the death of its ambassador and 3 other US citizens.Sure there will be a lot more benghazi style attacks if we keep on making the same mistakes.
marietoto
11/26/2012 8:34 AM UTC+0900
Bengazhi troll alert.
Thought provoking. Would have liked her to support some of her statements -- situation in Syria has put Iraq on the brink for example. The sectarian fighting in Iraq never went away and Maliki acts like a strong man (he never has appointed heads of some ministries like defense and security, retaining the power for himself). So, how does Syria make a bigger impact?

We should be asking ourselves about some assumptions. Iraq and Afghanistan are flawed -- some democratic features but run by leaders whose commitment to democracy (such as really free votes, independent judiciaries, rule of law, etc.) is questionable. Then there's the corruption. Egypt's president has just acted like his predecessor did. The Arab Spring did reflect a desire by many for democracy but perhaps we're seeing in Iraq and Egypt a situation similar to Russia when it got rid of the monarchy and the change was hijacked by the communists. For some time, have thought Afghanistan won't turn out as hoped -- too much poverty, too little education and too much corruption. Would be more confident about Syria had the Obama administration acted to support the rebellion months ago. Now, extremists have entered and the deaths of 40K or so may result in wide scale revenge given the history of blood fueds in the region.
Good to know Condi is a Karl-Marx-quoating Communist!!!
Why is not Iraq more our conception of a linchpin? Iraq is bridge between Kurds, Sunnis and Shia. Iraq has already had its post strong man rule metamorphosis. Iraq's confessional affinities are with Iran but its ethnic affinities are with greater Arabia. Its history is one of hostility to its Persian neighbors. Memories are long in the Middle East.

Iraq’s position suits it to the function of maintaining a regional balance of power. It’s in a good position to play broker.

What Iraq’s Maliki must be considering has to be that pragmatism is a virtue since he faces the ascendancy of Iran (Persia) as a regional power unchecked by the US. Iran has a nuclear program while the Arabs do not yet.

Syria does not have any strong ethnic ties to Iran. What considerations draw it towards Iran other than that of the sectarian affinity of its Shia minorities and simple regional power politics?

Syria and Iraq may share enough that their political consolidation might solve a lot of problems.

What we see in Gaza must be a distress signal coming from Tehran since Iran has nothing left but the Israel card to play in its bid to maintain its regional prestige.

The region’s future might be pretty good were they to politically federate while preserving a generous amount of ethnic group autonomy. That way Kurds wouldn’t be apprehensive of Persians, Turks or Arabs, Arabs wouldn’t worry so much about Persians, etc.
This is a thought provoking piece, notwithstanding the snarky responses. Rice’s thesis – that our choice is between propping up "weak" states in the Middle East and region-wide sectarian civil war -- raises more questions than it answers. These questions are ones the administration should be considering.

1. History as holy war, like history as class war (Marx) or race war (Hitler), is a dubious thesis. That the Iranian ruling mullahs believe it, or pretend to, doesn't make it so.

2. The Middle East is not another planet. State formation there, like everywhere, involves the interplay of ethnicity and polity, the importance of religion being the role of sectarian differences in sustaining ethnic differences. There are distinctive features but they are largely accidents of geography and prior history.

3. The problem of weak states in the Fertile Crescent is not new; rather it is 5000 years old. The fertile crescent has NEVER in five thousand years been characterized by strong (ethnic based) territorial states.

4. The Middle East has ALSO had strong (ethnic-based) states for most of its history: they have been on the borders of the Fertile Crescent -- e.g. Egypt, Anatolia, and Persia -- and have dominated the fertile crescent for most of history.

5. Sunni and Shiite are not monolothic blocks straining to break free from the straight jacket of weak, states. Sectarian divisions in Islam, as in Christianity, tend to rest upon and perpetuate pre-existing ethnic fault lines. The Turks are Sunni as an expression of pre-Islamic Turkish ethnic identity. Shiism was probably embraced in Iraq to express the solidarity of indigeneous Mesopotamians vis a vis invading Arabs. The many Shiite sub-sects along the Mediterraean coast (e.g. Alawites) are all rooted in pre-Islamic ethnic identities. Iran became Shiite in the 17th century to express Iranian national identity against Ottoman claims to be a pan-Islamic caliphate worthy of loyalty by then Sunni-majority Persians.
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Anadromous2
11/26/2012 2:57 PM UTC+0900
Still, I'd like to hear some of Obama's policy during this geo-political shift.

We are way past The Arab Spring trope.
Miss Rice from your support of the Iraq invasion to your assment that Iran is a Marxist state your decisions and ideas are so very old and colonialist in nature it is laughable. Wake up to a rusting America thanks to your buddies the Milton Friedmann"s and George W. Bushe's who believe they can spend all knds of trillions on useless wars that only serve to destable the Mid-east. You and your pure arrogance is responsible for the Arab spring, take a look in the mirror next time you decide to assail the Obama administration more the huge mess you left them.
Why does anyone listen to Coni Rice? She totally turned deaf ears to Richard Clark's attempt to warn her about al-Qaeda
...and has NEVER admitted that the Iraq invasion was a trumped up massive disaster...that should have NEVER taken place!

And the disgusting Republicans may even offer her as a Presidential Candidate. Madness!
In my opinion, we need to stop playing these dangerous games that keep getting people killed. The UN needs a strong leader with some imagination as to how we can live in a world without war. Not one person should die because we disagree. We have got to stop killing each other, spending our treasure on conflict, and filling the planet with debris and death. And it can be done. We need to find a way that requires that international disputes are resolved at the table and not on the battlefield. Is there a way to make Assad a War Criminal? Put a price on his head to be captured strictly ALIVE? And others too who foment armed conflict? Why should one person be killed to solve a dispute? The UN needs to start looking at this problem. And acting.
lufrank1
11/26/2012 5:23 AM UTC+0900
" Is there a way to make Assad a War Criminal?"
---or Bush or Cheney or Netanyahullah ?
JonR2
11/26/2012 9:43 AM UTC+0900
Please let us know when you return to Earth. We can have you read the Hamas charter, see how the "moderates" in Iran expound about how a nuclear exchange would be acceptable because Israel would be totally destroyed but Iran would only lose a few million people, and learn that in the eyes of the UN all nations are morally equivalent regardless of how free they are. Maybe then you would learn that the UN is utterly worthless at best, and downright dangerous at worst.
spadriver
11/26/2012 10:06 AM UTC+0900
Dummmmasss
Jeez, Condi is sounding like a raving Neocon. I thought she was one of the "realists", but apparently I was dead wrong.
Republicans will not, do not--or have never, to be precise about it--acknowledge self-determination as a right countries have.

Unless they are with us, they are against us, but that means for and against control we exercise and want to.

Hence the smallest matter becomes a scandal. In the instant piece, too, we hear nothing of what our interest is in a region so far away we hardly know what it does, and never, ever what other countries are saying there, unless it agrees with a point of view we have or can be warped to seem like this; thus does a dialogue of the deaf go on and on and on...
RayJosephCormier
11/26/2012 3:46 AM UTC+0900
The exercise of American Power in this world is predicated on the notion America, like Israel, is the preferred people of God with a Divine Mandate to mold the world in it's image. America worships an Americanized Jesus more than the Universal Christ.

The Jews in temporal Israel do not recognize Christ like the Jews do not recognize Hamas and vice versa, and open a sincere dialog without preconditions to resolve all outstanding issues and misunderstandings.

obmed1
11/26/2012 4:15 AM UTC+0900
Everyone knows all our mid-east policy is driven by the Israel lobby and its nefarious schemes. Somehow they are at the bottom of all this trouble in Syria and Jordan and Egypt. It may not be obvious but I am convinced of this truth none the less. What more is there to say?.
Given the messenger, I would not take this advice. The new national opposition is certainly representative of some Syrians, but then so is the Assad government. Assad's prisons were just fine for Washington's renditions. Does Ms. Rice prefer the new opposition because she knows their prisons will be just as useful? Is this just another essay by Ms. Rice in her ongoing campaign to redraw the Middle East--a project she discussed several years ago before Congress?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/06/29/syria-throu...

obmed1
11/26/2012 4:18 AM UTC+0900
The short answer to all your questions is, yes. Condi is in full tilt neocon mode here. She has her dander up and is bound and determined to save the world.
Leo10
11/26/2012 5:39 AM UTC+0900
obmed1: If Condi is bound and dtermined to save the world why didn't she start when she was NSA chief in the Bush Adm. and listen to Richard Clark"s warning regarding the terrorist attack that brought down the Twin towers. This woman needs to be in jail along with Bush, Cheney and Wolfowitz.
Israel is one of the nations "written on the back of an envelope" by England and America.. It exists solely due to the "guilt complex" created by European anti-semitism and the holocaust. Israel would not exist were it not artificially created by outside powers. The neighbors of Israel are all "irredentists" just like the French with their policy of revanche for getting back Alsace-Lorraine and Germany for the Rhineland,Sudetenland, Danzig,Memel and the Polish Corridor. The same is true of the Soviet Union and its intention to reverse Brest-Litovsk. The illegals who flooded into America from Mexico were irridentists who redemeed their land with their feet. Artificial boundaries and artificial states have always been a source of conflict.. Europe and Ameirca were responsible for creating conflict in the ME and now they are reaping what they sowed.
obmed1
11/26/2012 4:31 AM UTC+0900
The envelope phase was over long before the Holicaust. And Israel was created by the British in exchange for the support of the american Zionist lobby during the first WW. The Jews initially had no love and the British or French and they backed the Germans and Austrians and lobbied hard in the US to keep us out the conflict. By offering the Balfour declaration and supporting a Jewish homeland, the British persuaded the Zionist lobby to switch sides and support American intervention. The change in political climate was immediate, we intervened and the war soon ended in victory for the British. True to their word, Jewish immigration to Palestine was greatly accelerated and a Jewish homeland was established. Many more would have died in the Holocaust if the British had prevented Jewish immigration into Palestine.
Joe Papoon
11/26/2012 5:37 AM UTC+0900
A strong case has been made that Israel was created a buffer state to protect British interests in Egypt, i.e. the Suez.
Turkish people is aware of American and Israeli plan to build a big Kurdistan tearing apart Iraq, Syrian, Iranian and Turkish land where Kurds populated. It will be landlocked self-insufficient country who will need American Israeli support for survival. That is it. If they had
any means to survive they would not obey American and Israeli masters. It will be a supportive country to Israel in the region. Though it will not easy as they are feudal and cannot easily cohere other than temporary military alliances among them.
Nonetheless AKP government of Turkey has not nationalist values thus they do not care yet for Kurdish provocation.
Barzani is in open conflict with Iraqi government because operating in Syria and united Kurdish fractions under a single coordinated group soon to declare Kurdish independence from Syria.
CIA and Mossad’s Arap spring was preparatory for next target of American policy and it is to destabilize Syria even after collapse of Assad Regime. After this Iran will be left alone without any Ally in the region and will be attacked by Israel with American/Nato support.
Patriots will be deployed to intercept any Syrian backlash in case of imminent Nato intervention in Syria. So you may confidently assume Nato action is soon from Patriot Deployment. However I do not think Patriots shall be returned after collapse of Assad,
It will stay there for more to intercept Iranian missiles toward Europe or elsewhere.
However when you trigger revolutions, you cannot guess where it can end. Just like French revolution, Chaos cannot be controlled due to human factor, at the end. Thus Arab spring may not be stopped from now on, instead of American and Israeli friendly governments they will all evolve to radical Islamist states. You will strike Iran, but you will have many Irans around.
Lastly I wonder if US government can survive economically to see their plans realized.